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leaving Hongkong with debt 24 years ago

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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    leaving Hongkong with debt 24 years ago

    halo everyone

    i am new here and would like to ask some advise to you guys about some debt happened 24 years ago

    the story is like this

    My father was An Indonesian, and in 1970 he brought his wife (my mom) and my sister to Hongkong and doing some business and stay in hongkong. i and my brother was born in hongkong, and after 16 years, in 1985 my father business gone really bad and he cannot pay back a loan. the loan was made with a local bank and our house (flat actually) was collateral for that loan.

    because we cannot payback the loan, my father decided to go back to Indonesia for good and leave the loan unpaid, and we left the flat ( but the loan nominal was higher then the flat’s value).

    7 years ago my father pass away but before he died, he never told us what really happened at that time, and what is the agreement of the loan at that time. Even my mother not really understand what really happened, and she only know that the loan was under husband and wife name (sign by both of them.)

    Now it is already 24 years and the status of this problem is still unknown.

    Now, my mother has a plan to go to hongkong only to visit some relatives and for vacation , but we still afraid whether my mother might get caught in the immigration because of this bad history?

    How about tax? I also do not know my father’s tax status before he leave Hongkong 24 years ago. Will these problem come up if my mom show up in hong kong?

    For your information, there are slightly change of name in my mother passport, the first and middle name still the same, but got a new last name. also her passport already died for several years before she apply a new one recently.

    I really hope this forum might help, and I really apologize that what my father did in the pass that might effect other expatiates who live in Hong Kong (because of the unpaid debt).

    Thanks!
    Selwyn
    Indonesia


  2. #2

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    My short answer is that I'm 99% certain your mother will be fine.

    The long answer:

    - if the loan was entirely secured against the property then the value of the property when your father defaulted on the loan is the lender's problem not yours. If they made an agreement under which the property would constitute full and final settlement in the event of default then the matter would effectively have been closed when they secured the deeds to the property. That is the essence of collateral.

    - I've no idea what the tax arrangements were here 24 years ago, but if your father had a limited company then that will have been wound up by now and all of its debts written off. Personal taxation on salaries would, in principle, carry forward, but I really don't think they would come after your mother for a tax debt of her now deceased husband 24 years ago, even in the very, very unlikely event that they make the connection.

    - I would be extremely surprised if records of people no longer living in Hong Kong were put on to the Immigration systems when they were computerised.

    All in all, I think your mother really shouldn't worry. I'd be very surprised if there is even a theoretical case that she might owe anything, and even if there were then the chances of Immigration knowing about it are so close to zero that they are not worth worrying about.

    Titus likes this.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    254
    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    My short answer is that I'm 99% certain your mother will be fine.

    The long answer:

    - if the loan was entirely secured against the property then the value of the property when your father defaulted on the loan is the lender's problem not yours. If they made an agreement under which the property would constitute full and final settlement in the event of default then the matter would effectively have been closed when they secured the deeds to the property. That is the essence of collateral.

    - I've no idea what the tax arrangements were here 24 years ago, but if your father had a limited company then that will have been wound up by now and all of its debts written off. Personal taxation on salaries would, in principle, carry forward, but I really don't think they would come after your mother for a tax debt of her now deceased husband 24 years ago, even in the very, very unlikely event that they make the connection.

    - I would be extremely surprised if records of people no longer living in Hong Kong were put on to the Immigration systems when they were computerised.

    All in all, I think your mother really shouldn't worry. I'd be very surprised if there is even a theoretical case that she might owe anything, and even if there were then the chances of Immigration knowing about it are so close to zero that they are not worth worrying about.

    Considering the monimal value of the loan was greater than the value of the property I really doubt the property was used as full collateral. It would definately have been repossessed by the bank and then resold and then the money will be used to repay the loan as far as it can. If there is still a deficit in they owners are legally still have a debt to pay.
    I know for example if a mortgage messes up and the owner ain't able to pay up the rest, they will seize the property and sell it. It say the property value has dropped dramatically then its not the banks fault. All they will do is try and sell at the highest price and then if there is still further debt left over, it has to be repaid by the debter too.

    Furthermore I would be extremely surprised if records of people no longer living in Hong Kong WERE NOT put on to the Immigration systems when they were computerised. I think that because he has family who are HK citizens then even more likely that there is some records of the father on the database servers.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Thanks for the replays

    how about some law like Limitation of Act 1980, that used in British Law? is it applaed in Hong KOng? or is there similar rule that state that after several years the credit recored will be erase even the bad one?

    and also if i am not mistaken, Debt is different with crime and Imigration is not involved in this kind of matter? but that happen to other country. i do not know with hong kong

    any other opinion?

    Last edited by Selwyn; 21-04-2009 at 11:58 AM.

  5. #5

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    >> Imigration is not involved in this kind of matter

    Immigration is involved if someone owes the govt money (tax.... but then that might be classified as a crime...)


  6. #6

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    Apr 2009
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    What if I call or email the Immigration office? and asking the status of my mother?? will this be a good ide or actualy bad??

    any opinions will be appreciated


  7. #7

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    I'd NOT do that actually!

    I think everyone else here is right, just turn up as a tourist, do NOT advertise the fact you were here before and had debts and have a good trip.


  8. #8

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    I believe the statute of limitation of a contract under seal is 12 years.


  9. #9

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    Apr 2009
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    thanks again for the replays!

    how about my mother passport, 24 years ago passport is different from now, and there are aditional family name with my mother's name in passport. will these effect? but the birth date and place of birth remain the same


  10. #10

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    generally if the bank had been insistent, it would have kept the bad debt in the book for the 24 years and when the mortgagee comes back they can sue the person for the debt.

    but doing that would mean the bank has a bad debt provision for the 24 years.. which they are unlikely keen to do.

    so chances are they would have written off the bad debt..


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