Employment Possibilities + Learning Canto

[Aldhissla]

Hi,
I currently live in England, and would ultimately like to end up living in HK. In September '09 I'm starting a 2 year course in general computing; it covers programming, databases, spreadsheets, computer architecture; everything you'd expect.
Is this enough to get me employed in Hong Kong when I can afford to move there, after university? Should I look into anything else that will benefit?
I'm looking into learning Cantonese, but can't find anywhere that looks reliable, if anyone has any information, please let me know.

[jimbo]

Ultimately though after completing this course what Job would you like to be doing?

Also do you have experience in say I.T prior to completing this course thus can put it on your c.v to make you a lot more marketable.

Without experience to back up your qualification then you might struggle to get a work visa thats assuming you require one.

[M Khan]

You would probably be looking at the possibility of landing a job in HK with a company that will sponsor your working visa. There are other options for residing in HK (dependent visas, study visas etc.) but I assume you'd be looking at an employment type of situation.

While I am not aware of any prescribed list of prerequisite talents or qualifications that overseas applicants have to have, there remain a few rather harsh truths that might put obstacles in your way:

1) Technically an employer sponsoring a work visa has to prove to the Immigration Department that the job they have offered to you cannot be filled by a local. If you lack specific or higher qualifications, or you lack substantial relevant industry experience, then it will be an up-hill struggle for your sponsor to satisfy Immigration on this count.

2) The economy being the way it is you're likely to find fewer employers looking to hire new staff from overseas. This is likely to be especially true in any situation where an 'expat' salary is expected. Conversely, of course, it might be less of a problem if you were willing to accept a 'local' salary. Also, if your move to HK isn't going to happen for two or three years then the economy should have picked up by then (we hope).

3) Quite apart from the pool of well-qualified and experienced local talent, you will also have to contend with foreigners who already live in HK - including some who won't require a company to sponsor a visa for them. Hong Kong experience can be nearly as important to some companies as relevant industry experience, and this can be a bit of a 'Catch 22' for overseas applicants.

Having said all that, the potential obstacles may not be insurmountable - especially as it seems you still have plenty of time to work on the problem. I honestly don't think learning Cantonese will be of much benefit to you unless you can gain a level of fluency that will allow you to conduct business in the language. Being able to order your Big Mac in Cantonese may make life a little more convenient for you, however it will not necessarily add value to your CV.

[Aldhissla]

Okay, thank you. Before I make the move, after the two year course, i will have to work in the UK for however many years, purely to get the funds to make the move.
I'm not entirely sure exactly what type of job I'd be looking at, initially anything that's going just to get my feet on the ground and get settled in, then I can start being more fussy about what I'm doing.
The two year course is a diploma and halfway through the second year, assuming I'm doing well enough, I can choose to do an extra year to make it a 3 year degree, which will obviously be better.

If anyone has any extra advise, I'd be extremely grateful.

[Football16]

The lower level IT jobs here are not high paying jobs from what I understand and you might find it a challenge to get an employer who can say that no local person can be found.

As I see it at the lower level entry positions, fluency in Cantonese it seems would be a "must have" and priority as it seems to me that most of the day to day conversation would not be in English. I know software programming groups in Vancouver where the language of the workers unless talking to the boss is not English. Here I suspect this might be more true and that would mitigate against an English speaking IT professional depending on the type of work and company. Cantonese would definitely be the language of the programmers and quality assurance people.

Learning opportunities for Cantonese are good here - language centres, tutors and one of the universities but that means you'd have to have the job here to be in classes.

I suspect a grad of a two year program in the best UK schools might have trouble trumping a local job applicant here but this is more speculation on my part.

I do know one senior IT techy type who is here in HK as a tourist who is highly qualified but unable to find work here and I suspect it is in part due to his inability to work in Cantonese. He has not been told that but how else can you explain someone so highly qualified not getting work. I have shown his resume to a few others here in our IT group and they think it will be tough here for him but are blown away by his experience and credentials.

Good luck as nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Certainly don't let people dissuade you from your aspirations.

[Pekkerhead]

Seeing as you are thinking in the long term I would make some effort to learn Mandarin too. Can't harm to have as much under your belt as possible.

Where in the UK do you live? Best places to get on a Canto course will obviously be where there are a large concentration of Chinese - London, Manchester, Birmingham. Or just get yourself some Cantonese speaking friends who can help.

I used to live in Manchester and started learning there, but when I moved to London a few places ran night courses. It's been a while but I am sure there must still be courses at places like SOAS and Mary Ward Centre nr Russell Square.

[jimbo]

I do know one senior IT techy type who is here in HK as a tourist who is highly qualified but unable to find work here and I suspect it is in part due to his inability to work in Cantonese. He has not been told that but how else can you explain someone so highly qualified not getting work. I have shown his resume to a few others here in our IT group and they think it will be tough here for him but are blown away by his experience and credentials.

Then whats stopping this person from learning Cantonese to make themselves more marketable? Sure it could be one of the reasons but it could also be one of a multitude of reasons such as.

1. Not confident enough at Interviews.
2. Targetting the wrong companies

etc etc, Heck I'm a British Born Chinese and I'm expected to be fluent in Cantonese but am far from it and frankly my cantonese sucks and it hasn't hindered me at all out here.

For somebody thats maybe over qualified it might be a case of dumbing down your c.v to at least get a foot in the door.

[M Khan]

I remember when I interviewed for my job the fact that I couldn't speak Cantonese was of no concern to the boss as he had plenty of people who could. It was my ability to speak Mandarin that made me stand out from other applicants (and from pretty much everyone else in the office). Still, different employers will value different skill sets. I'm a firm believer in constant learning and development. Learning either Mandarin or Cantonese certainly couldn't hurt!

[Aldhissla]

Thank you all for your advice, it's all useful and I appreciate it. Can anyone recommend a good place to learn Cantonese, either online or actually in HK?
Would it be better to learn before I get there?

[M Khan]

Thank you all for your advice, it's all useful and I appreciate it. Can anyone recommend a good place to learn Cantonese, either online or actually in HK?
Would it be better to learn before I get there?

SOAS, in London, has already been mentioned and a while ago I would probably have suggested the same thing. Now, though, I have had some feed-back from one of my friends who has recently completed a master's degree in Chinese there. He had worked with me for a couple of years in mainland before going to SOAS and his level of Chinese was already pretty good. Given the reputation of SOAS, his expectations were understandably quite high. He reported, however, that the teaching standard of Mandarin was sorely disappointingl and the way he described lessons to me made me glad I hadn't signed-up.

I don't know if the standard of Cantonese teaching would be any different and of course this opinion isn't coming to you 'first hand'. From what I've heard, though, the prize-winning, star students of the SOAS language department are those who already had a pretty high level of fluency before they arrived and not those who have gone there hoping to learn a language from scratch.

As for my suggestions, well everyone learns in a different way and you will find that a course which suits one person might not be right for you, so it's worth examining a variety of options carefully and trying out a couple of free 'taster' lessons if they are offered.

I was always utterly hopeless at languages when I was at school, and I knew the only way I could hope to learn Mandarin was total immersion in a Mandarin-speaking environment - hence my move to mainland China way back in 200...something ('04 / '05 ?). Since arriving in Hong Kong, however, I haven't learned more than a few phrases of Cantonese. Mostly that's due to laziness on my part, and also probably the wide-spread use of English here doesn't help.