Roaming gangs of Mainlanders stealing children from Hong Kong shopping malls

[Swannie]

Yup. And HK guys prefer their prostitutes to have high levels of melamine and heavy metals. That's why Mainland women are trafficked into HK day in and day out to labor as forced sex workers.

Wait a minute ... importing women from the Mainland to be prostitutes ... all of that risk and hassle ... for what? There are plenty of women in HK who could be enslaved.

Obviously implausible. Right?

Silly analogy... Prostitutes don't necessarily have to be smuggled and come over somewhat voluntarily. They are more plentiful and less costly than HK women. It's an economic supply and demand situation... I would have an easier time believing that HK triads go to China to kidnap girls to turn them into prostitutes, there would be some logic behind it.

Obviously, kidnapping or incidents are possible in any places but it really makes very little sense to have some kind of organized ring that would randomly kidnap HK children unless it was for ransom. It's tabloid fodder and about as likely to happen as readers of this forum being kidnapped for their organs.

[Raccon]

That is a valid point - and I would at any time respect that response.

My point was not that I personally am in need of details - I think I made that clear more than once or twice.

Noted (already before).

My point is completely different.
We have a case where some (many) people are worried without a valid reason (my opinion) - and there is a wide spread fear amongst the public about things that are extremly rare to happen.
In order to not get misunderstood for the 10th time - I 100% agree that the current situation is based on mass hysteria. I also 100% agree that people are innoncent until otherwise proven, etc etc, bla bla.
But, we can chose to sit back and throw stones: "you guys are idiots for worrying about thuff that will most likely never happen to you"
Or....we can chose to accept the fact that some (many) people are worried....and think of ways to inform/educate those people.
In these particullar cases most of the dicussions would stop if all knew the details - thats is not the same as saying that I demand a full disclosure dispite it might be in violation with one persons private life.

I don´t see how sitting back with arrogance and condemnation can help anything.

Disagree, it cannot be expected that the police has to waste their time on explaining each and every non-incident in detail. As HC said there will always be those who have more questions or who still doubt the answers, so when/where does it end?
It's pointless and I rather have them respond with a one liner so they can focus on police work and look into the real crimes than trying to satisfy the information-hungry public. Wouldn't be surprised if most of them actually read tabloids as their main "news" source.

What people however need is some common sense but unfortunately it can't be taught.

[pepe77]

Noted (already before).


Disagree, it cannot be expected that the police has to waste their time on explaining each and every non-incident in detail. As HC said there will always be those who have more questions or who still doubt the answers, so when/where does it end?
It's pointless and I rather have them respond with a one liner so they can focus on police work and look into the real crimes than trying to satisfy the information-hungry public. Wouldn't be surprised if most of them actually read tabloids as their main "news" source.

What people however need is some common sense but unfortunately it can't be taught.

I rest my case - and accept the fact that I don´t have the talent of making my point of view easy to understand for all

[Raccon]

No, but if there were a particular stretch of road where there had been higher-than-normal incidence of people being run over, for whatever reason, and someone wanted to put up a sign for pedestrians letting them know that that was a potentially hazardous spot to try to cross the road, would you stuff your thumbs in your ears and make raspberry noises at them for trying to turn you into a trembling shut-in?

Thanks for supporting the police with this argument - they had no idea it was a serial rapist and what area he was operating in, so how exactly should they have warned the public to avoid a particular spot (alley/street)?

If the police say there was a rape in (e.g.) Kwun Tong and a woman gets raped in Lam Tin people would accuse the police of giving wrong/incomplete information and being at fault (not to mention if it were the same guy); they say there was a rape in Kwun Tong and women in the whole of Kowloon should be cautious people would accuse them of creating panic or not care much because the area is too large. And if then something happens on the HK side ... well, I think you get the point.

[...] THAT is where they get their information from.... should it not be the "news" media's responsibility to help quell the frenzy they have created?

No, it should be their responsibility not to publish rubbish because once done it's too late and no matter how much you want to quell it there will still be doubt.

should one not trust the news organisations?

People need to learn READING. Starting with the very first word of the link provided by the OP, which is "Rumors", not "Confirmed reports" or such.

as i said, the frenzy is not the result of a few expat websites. the frenzy is caused by the full pages, with photos, of this dire "news item".

Some people consider Apple Daily a news magazine do but I don't have much understanding for those who read tabloids and believe everything they read in there, and then demand to have explanations to calm down the hysteria when it turned out to be nothing.

if CNN reported it, i would likely believe it.... should the locals not have the same sense and trust in their news reporters?

Oh dear ....

And no, this didn't start recently with the whole locust thing. It's been like this ever since I came to Hong Kong... I know, it's a generalization but I was just surprised why nobody mentioned so far that this whole thing goes both ways. And in this case taking away the sole reason why (in the HK peoples theories) any mainlander actually would want a HK kid. It's just absurd.

I don't quite agree with your reasoning, there are always cases where it's hard if not impossible to understand the motivation, even it seems absurd, or improbable.

Sometimes things are done that might not make sense to us but do to the person that does it.

I rest my case - and accept the fact that I don´t have the talent of making my point of view easy to understand for all

Just because I disagree doesn't mean your POV is not understood. Why waste time on informing and educating people about things that did not happen? - Start at the beginning, by questioning such reports (in particular if they pop up in tabloids or some internet forum) rather than spreading it as something that really happened.


Today it's so easy to spread false information and rumors that the first thing should be doubt about the truthfulness of such reports, CNN and BBC included.
Also people need to learn the meaning of "suspected", "alleged", "unconfirmed reports" etc. (where applicable).

[dear giant]

Thanks for supporting the police with this argument - they had no idea it was a serial rapist and what area he was operating in, so how exactly should they have warned the public to avoid a particular spot (alley/street)?

If the police say there was a rape in (e.g.) Kwun Tong and a woman gets raped in Lam Tin people would accuse the police of giving wrong/incomplete information and being at fault (not to mention if it were the same guy); they say there was a rape in Kwun Tong and women in the whole of Kowloon should be cautious people would accuse them of creating panic or not care much because the area is too large. And if then something happens on the HK side ... well, I think you get the point.

Only a deliberately, disingenuously obtuse reading of my posts could result in you theorizing that I'm advocating for police notifying the public only when confirmed-beyond-the-shadow-of-a-doubt serial rapes by the same assailant have occurred and silence on the part of the police otherwise.

If there's a rape (yes, even just one) or certainly any other violent crime, the crime should be announced along with the general location.

Those of you who don't care to follow the news can remain blissfully ignorant.

Anyone who would like to know what's going on could either read the police blotter or use an app that took the police crime information and created a useful visualization, like this one:

Crime map of Baltimore, Md.

Transparency is a virtue.

[bryant.english]

Hmm, why so harsh ?
I think what DG says (most of it) makes perfect sense.
As for example for the kid who ended up in Lowu. It would a good follow up story to actually describe what happend. You should know that a trip from Aberdeen to Lowu doesnt happen by pure coinsidence - there is most likely more to the story. It could be an interesting little story (maybe even funny) to hear about the boys adventure. If nothing else it would bring a closure to the story instead of keeping the wave rolling. Dont see anything wrong in that...

I spoke to a group of my local colleagues today including my principal. They are genuinely concerned about the 'kidnappings' and I must admit that after speaking to them I'm keeping an open mind about it..

[bookblogger]

If those mainlanders come near my stroller, I swear I'll do time!

[Mat]

Crime map of Baltimore, Md.

Transparency is a virtue.

Exactly what I was saying, it seems to me to be a northern American stance (no offense here).

Transparency is a virtue: Debatable like everything.

A certain level yes, full transparency not sure (ie wikileaks).

Transparency should used with care - too much can create panic if finally further investigation reveal that initial suspicions are unfunded.

[Raccon]

I spoke to a group of my local colleagues today including my principal. They are genuinely concerned about the 'kidnappings' and I must admit that after speaking to them I'm keeping an open mind about it..

Did you ask them why they are so concerned about something that actually didn't happen?

[kittyctc]

I believe in this article they refer to kids kidnapped/abducted/given up and sold by parents (because of the usual gender preference in China) as the same thing.

And without knowing any details, you have to take this kind of info spread by the central government with a grain of salt, they talk about women and other "abducted" persons they freed interchangeably with kidnappings, prostitution, human trafficking, parents selling their kids and more. That might include 20000 prostitutes they arrested and therefore "freed" them from human trafficking syndicates.

Not saying it isn't true, I am very aware all these problems exist in China. But it's a bit far fetched to take these numbers to make a case for the whole "mainlanders snatch HK kids is possible" thing.

For past decades for various socio-economical reasons mainland parents have come to be more vigilant compare to their counterparts in hk.
This lower vigilance of parents in hk in general- means more available opportunities. Profits are deemed higher as the poor victims are from "HK", the lack of authority to deter/prevent the crime from happening(slow response from the security guards as stated by the mother; ikea/ocean park/shopping malls being commerical entities their public relations would not heed much warning to drive away shoppers/customers), and lastly i don't think anyone of us would doubt the high motivation these suspected offenders have.