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Why not let Hong Kong people be as miserable as everyone else!

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:

    Although the current CE has also taken land earmarked for private development and changed it to even more public housing even though the city has far too much public housing which causes generational poverty issues.
    Really? But why isn't that the case in Singapore?

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiaque:
    Really? But why isn't that the case in Singapore?
    95% of publicly built flats in Singapore are sold to the public allowing them to escape the cycle of dependence. The HOS in HK was stopped

    As Mr Lee Kuan Yew said “My primary occupation was to give every citizen a stake in the country and its future… if every family owned its home, the country would be more stable… I believe this sense of ownership was vital for our new society… ”
    Elegiaque likes this.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    The ability to de-select a bad leader is surely more important to the continued development of a society.
    Ideally, democracy is where the power rests with the people. However, what can one say about the scenarios happening in the US, President Obama, Ex-President George Bush, Jr.? Can the general people really have a say in important issues? Perhaps the Americans are just too fat and dumb to press a button in the voting booth.

    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    The quality of governance around the world is generally improving. There are exceptions but the world is better run now than 50 or 100 years ago. One of the main changes is the increase in democratic principles which seems to suggest that it does offer a better way of of helping to ensure terrible leaders are removed and replaced by relatively better ones.

    If that were not the case as you suggest the quality of governance would be getting worse - it isn't.
    Yes, governance is improving. Laws have been enacted to protect the environment, break monopolies, allow legal action against malpractice/wrongdoing, build structures, etc.

    Although I agree with the first idea, you can also use the idea as a basis to tell Hongkongers to shut up and continue to keep grinding the everyday life. Since standards are much higher than say the 1930's. Even the most poor man of today, lived a more comfortable life than the poor man of that time.

    As for democracy to de-elect terrible leaders, while in theory it is possible, the human nature element must also be taken into consideration, thus preventing it to happen. Same for communism, it is a broken system because humans have desires.

    ________________________

    Lastly, in my opinion. I feel Hong Kong has too much public housing. If you have noticed why developers only build upper class residences (or middle-upper class), it draws a lot of suspicion as to why the middle class or lower middle class are left out of the equation. Perhaps Hongkongers should vote for a housing quota system. If developers want to build 10,000 luxury units, they also must wait for a fulfilled quota of providing a number of lower/middle class units.

    I have a strong opinion that public housing has driven down wages. In the case of HK wages, of 10-20k/month, it may be comfortable living in HK public housing (low rent), but on an international level with western nations, it is a laughable wage. Thus, when HK'ers leave their home to travel internationally, their spending power is actually very low. A $15/hr minimum wage is being adopted in Seattle, WA, USA, with no City/State tax (only Federal Tax), a cashier in that area would be giggling working only 40 hours/week. If they were ambitious enough, they'd take another part-time job. In Hongkong this is not possible as it is a sensitive issue (working for 2 employers).

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by A_New_Life:
    Yes, governance is improving. Laws have been enacted to protect the environment, break monopolies, allow legal action against malpractice/wrongdoing, build structures, etc.
    Toothless laws about the environment and monopolies laws are possibly not the best advert for improving governance. These are probably far outweighed by the politicisation of the police, curbs on freedom of the press and funnelling huge amounts of money through the DAB.

    The continued stuffing of Legco or artificially high proportion of pro-beijing cronies and the inevitable splitting of the pro-Hong Kong parties by ridiculously large geographic constituencies that let the radicals have too much of a voice point to deliberate poor governance to make Beijing's hand stronger.


    Quote Originally Posted by A_New_Life:
    Lastly, in my opinion. I feel Hong Kong has too much public housing. If you have noticed why developers only build upper class residences (or middle-upper class), it draws a lot of suspicion as to why the middle class or lower middle class are left out of the equation. Perhaps Hongkongers should vote for a housing quota system. If developers want to build 10,000 luxury units, they also must wait for a fulfilled quota of providing a number of lower/middle class units.

    I have a strong opinion that public housing has driven down wages. In the case of HK wages, of 10-20k/month, it may be comfortable living in HK public housing (low rent), but on an international level with western nations, it is a laughable wage. Thus, when HK'ers leave their home to travel internationally, their spending power is actually very low. A $15/hr minimum wage is being adopted in Seattle, WA, USA, with no City/State tax (only Federal Tax), a cashier in that area would be giggling working only 40 hours/week. If they were ambitious enough, they'd take another part-time job. In Hongkong this is not possible as it is a sensitive issue (working for 2 employers).
    Way too much public housing and it just a subsidy to poor paying big business.

    Every new private development should be forced to include 20% of flats for public housing then the issue of giving huge amounts of money to the poor to 'buy' their allegiance of the poor would be more visible to the home owners and stop the current economic segregation that exists.
    Last edited by East_coast; 20-07-2014 at 04:29 PM.

  5. #25
    tabletop

    Anyone who has problems with HK people demanding democracy should go live in Mainland China