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Is it all in my mind?

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  1. #1

    Is it all in my mind?

    Hello All!

    New to the forums so please be gentle!

    So, I am basically looking for your opinion on a job offer I got - not the standard "is x amount enough to live on" - a little more complicated and I wanted to see what the general consensus is.

    I was offered a position in HK by an MNC. They had asked me for my expected package so I put together a 5 page document with evidence and research asking for 122k per month (It had to be detailed as my skills are very niche and there is NO info on websites about remuneration amounts for this particular job in HK).

    They responded within a week offering me 80k per month for a 60 hour week with overtime salaried in already and overnighting abroad as and when needed for the role - in short - no other recompense even if I worked every hour under the sun above 60 hours.

    Here's the drawback:

    I am currently London based and my current remuneration is roughly 75k HKD per month based on a 40 hour week and overtime payable at 2x base rate per hour. I get free travel and a suite of other perks thrown in.

    If I were to take up another position here in London I could feasibly earn 125k per month on a 60 hour week plus (reduced) perks and overtime @ 2x base rate per hour. This is because I would be sacrificing perks for money so to speak.

    So rightfully (I thought), I countered the offer humbly at 112k with a list of reasons and evidence based figures then left it open ended ready for the re-offer...

    That was over a week and a half ago, previously they had responded within a few days. I had been through 3 interviews and was met and personally approved by the CEO himself.

    I have a line in the sand and they aren't that far away from it - but from their lack of response are they trying to play mind games to see if I crack first and take the initial offer? Or do you think they are no longer interested and just can't be bothered to tell me? (Does that even happen any more in HK in a professional context?!)

    Any thoughts appreciated...


  2. #2
    tabletop

    Wow 125k a month. I suddenly have salary envy In my experience with job applications is that locals don't bother replying at all if they are not interested or if you don't agree for what they offer. They just try to look for someone else who will accept.


  3. #3

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    The gap between their offered salary of 80K and your counteroffer of 112K is too wide. I'm not saying others have not been able to negotiate such an increase but it must be very rare. Are you offering something very unique / lucrative to this firm?


    Sent from my iPhone using GeoClicks


  4. #4

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    You never really know what's going on. Especially if it is an MNC, they might need further approvals to offer you any more. I think if they haven't responded within 2 weeks, it would be unlikely they will.


  5. #5

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    Have you also considered the tax advantages of working here? That in itself goes someway to reducing the gap between the offered and counter offered amounts.

    Have you thought about the potential benefits to your career in taking this new posting? Does it add something useful to your CV? Does it open up new opportunities down the road?

    Also, don't forget that any salary negotiated is not forever! A year down the line (or even less in some circumstances) when you can prove your worth to the company then it's time to renegotiate!


    Sent from my iPhone using GeoClicks


  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Synicist:
    I was offered a position in HK by an MNC. They had asked me for my expected package so I put together a 5 page document with evidence and research asking for 122k per month (It had to be detailed as my skills are very niche and there is NO info on websites about remuneration amounts for this particular job in HK).
    Without knowing specific details, any feedback has to be fairly general. Taking that into account, a 5 page explanation of why you deserve a certain salary is a probably good 4.5 pages too long. Some bullet points should be enough....more than that seems to smack of not really being able to justify the salary you're asking for (from a business rather than personal viewpoint).

    Quote Originally Posted by Synicist:
    They responded within a week offering me 80k per month for a 60 hour week with overtime salaried in already and overnighting abroad as and when needed for the role - in short - no other recompense even if I worked every hour under the sun above 60 hours.
    Welcome to Hong Kong. Depending on your industry, once you're out of junior positions it tends to be unusual to get paid overtime (especially at the salary level you're quoting). And not just in HK...that's across the board in many major cities. Sounds like you have a cushy job right now (enjoy!!) 60 hours is a pretty normal work week in HK. A lot of people would be happy if they only worked 60 hours! Many people work much longer hours and for no extra money. Some people view overnighting abroad as a perk but ultimately, if it's part of the role you just need to suck it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synicist:
    If I were to take up another position here in London I could feasibly earn 125k per month on a 60 hour week plus (reduced) perks and overtime @ 2x base rate per hour. This is because I would be sacrificing perks for money so to speak.
    So take up a position in London paying more and then use that higher salary as a basis to move to HK. You can't have it both ways. Most employers don't compensate for "lost perks", that's why they're called perks. Expecting lost perks to be taken into account in salary negotiation with a future employer doesn't usually work. If this was part of your 5 pages, it might explain the lack of response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synicist:
    So rightfully (I thought), I countered the offer humbly at 112k with a list of reasons and evidence based figures then left it open ended ready for the re-offer...
    Your counter-offer (as has already been stated) was way too high. If you included the word "humble" with it, I'm not really surprised you didn't get a response. Your current salary is 75k equivalent and you asked for 122k.....that's crazy. Apologies if this sounds a little harsh but as a former recruiter, that's how I see it. It may not be fair but employers tend not to care about paid/unpaid overtime or being underpaid compared to the market, lost perks (holidays, good pensions etc). They usually just look at the numbers. You're on 75k, you're moving somewhere with much lower tax yet you asked for 122k. Unless I was absolutely desperate for your skillset, it'd be an outright refusal from me and I wouldn't even bother negotiating.

    Just as background, I moved to HK 3 years ago from London and took a pay cut to move. I was p*ssed off about it but decided that the experience was worth it. Now I'm back in London with my former UK employer (they asked me to come back and work for them on my first day back in London) earning significantly more than I was before I left London last time (and way more than I was in HK). For me it was worth it...even if the HK work environment caused quite a few tears (and a lot of drunken nights)....you need to decide what's most important to you....the HK experience or money or quality of life. You get to pick one. If you're lucky, you might get to pick two. It's rare to get all 3.
    wtbhotia, jgl and Hapi like this.

  7. #7

    Thanks for all the responses.

    Especially the detailed one bibbju. I dont't mind 'harsh' - it saves a lot of flapping around. You have made some good points, some I agree with some I do not, but then that's how things get refined isn't it - I will consider your points for next time.

    In any case i have spoken to the HR director and they have drawn up another counter offer and are awaiting the boss to come back from their holiday this week for approval (hence the delay apparently).

    Hopefully we will meet somewhere in the middle so let's wait and see

    Thanks for all your help folks.


  8. #8

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    Be sure to update us on how it goes!


  9. #9

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    Original Post Deleted
    I just want to add one thing - this quote above makes HK seem like a hardship posting. It's not. HK is an AMAZING place. Just a few highlights:

    It's a great place to work, earn money and enhance your career
    It's compact enough to get everywhere easily
    It's safe, clean and convenient
    There is a huge variety of restaurants and bars available (at every price point)
    It's very easy to get out of the city for outdoor activities such as hiking
    It's a great jumping off point to visit many other Asian countries

    Yes HK has its downsides (such as pollution, crowding and small flats) but that shouldn't deter the OP. On 80K a month (or even more depending on the counteroffer) he will be able to enjoy the best of what HK can offer.
    Last edited by jmbf; 29-07-2014 at 01:06 PM.

  10. #10

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    I agree with TB. All financial packages being strictly equal, for a medium to long term posting, you'd be nuts to turn down London, NYC, Paris etc in favour of HK. The main reason people come to HK is the financial benefit. Take that away and every nice thing that HK offers, everywhere else does too, without a lot of negatives.

    And don't get me wrong, I enjoy my existence out here, but if I lost my job or it made financial sense to move back home, I would move back in a heartbeat.

    I can understand coming out here for, say, a 6 month secondment. That's probably the most ideal way to experience HK risk-free.

    shri and TheBrit like this.

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