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[Urgent] Headhunter trying to low ball me

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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie09:
    just a thought: all headhunters in HK are paid a commission on the base salary of the placed candidate. so your interests are aligned with the headhunter when it comes to salary
    This is a very naive view of the relationship between agents and principals during a negotiation process.

    This was eloquently covered in the book Freakonomics years ago from the perspective of real estate agents, but it has been a well-known misalignment of interests in negotiation strategy for absolutely ages. Essentially the interest of the principal is to get the best price possible (in the case of the OP, the highest salary). The interest of the agent is to make a transaction quickly and price accordingly for speed (if he can talk the OP, who has poor information access, into a lower salary, the agent is likely to secure a deal).

    When it comes to recruitment agents, the agent is also likely to favour the employer, who likely provides a stream of future business, rather than the candidate who is likely a one time customer.

    A summary of the Freakonomics write up is here. Specifically, look at the numbers. Why you can't trust a real estate agent.
    Last edited by jgl; 06-07-2015 at 10:55 PM.
    cookie09, z754103, bdw and 2 others like this.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by JulyOne:
    it means they are not placing any values on my ability to speak fluent English, nor my overseas experience.
    for the role you want, i personally don't see how language skills or overseas experience matters much (or at least much more).

  3. #33

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    These are my personal experience since I came back from the US three years ago:

    For many MNC insurance companies in HK, people are able to speak "good enough" English, so your language skill is not really value-added. Overseas experience could mean you didn't know the latest HK/China markets than the locals, so nothing special. The fact is these insurance companies probably have many employees who have overseas experience and speak very well English. Unless you are in senior/top management position, don't feel you get any advantages just because you have lived/worked overseas.

    The good news is insurance industry in HK is always hiring. If you can sell yourself working in Life Insurance products, you will get more opportunities to be hired with better offers. There are more changes in compliance to be due in the coming two years, Actuary will be one big party to be involved for all these changes. Also, because of those wealthy mainland customers, insurance companies always introduce new products to the market, so Actuary will be only busy to work on the pricing every day and night!!

    So, if you are not hurry to move back to HK, just wait till a better offer. Even you may start with a lower salary, once after one or two years experience in HK, you can jump pretty good for 10-15% easily. Also, insurance companies usually offer at least 10-20% (depends your grade) of annual salary as year end bonus, which is a good plus. With all these good signs, expect long working hours though.


  4. #34

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    If you are looking for a salary around 35-40K, then simply tell the Recruiter that is your minimum expectation in terms of salary, and then let him do his job and find you something that fits your profile and expectation.

    Clearly the company (or recruiter) has changed their mind about the salary. So unless you are OK with that; why not just pass on it and wait for a more fitting opportunity? Stand your ground, and don't get pushed over!

    Last edited by 7jai; 07-07-2015 at 12:15 PM.

  5. #35

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    First, salaries in Hong Kong are based on salaries in Hong Kong, not salaries in Canada, Papua New Guinea or wherever.

    Second, the recruiter is likely not on a single commission for this. It could be a flat annual fee.

    Are you being lowballed? Absolutely. Check the market rate for the job and give that as your minimum. But add conditions for relocation.

    East_coast and madal1 like this.

  6. #36

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    I don't know if JulyOne is even still following this thread or ever accepted the job but...

    Quote Originally Posted by JulyOne:
    Now he lowered the expected salary to 27k. He made up a long explanation about how he arrived at the 27k. He basically took my NET income after Canadian tax, then divide by (1+bonus %) and divide by (1-HK tax %) to come up with the GROSS income. He also accounts for the fact that rent payments are non-taxable, so I save 10k tax a year. Basically he is trying to match my Canadian net income after tax. Does that make sense?????? How can you not account for the higher cost of living???.
    Figuring out the comparative salary is your job and not for the employer/recruiter/headhunter. You should know your own expectations and have done your own research on what salary you want. In this case, the recruiter would have no idea what your financial needs are.

    Quote Originally Posted by JulyOne:
    Honestly, if they want to offer a local salary, they should just hire a local instead of interviewing someone overseas. I feel they are low balling me because they know I speak fluent cantonese and wants to treat me like a local.
    Reality check here. You're not being lowballed. Starting salaries in HKG are lower than in Canada. Had you done the research on local salaries you would've known this (and possibly could've used a different tactic in negotiating salary expectations). Also, HKG culture somewhat expects people in their 20s, 30s and maybe even 40s to continue living at their parental/family home. This (unfortunately) justifies the lower salaries in the eyes of a lot of people/employers. The honest truth is that for those living at home with their parents, a relatively lower salary is really quite managable. But locals do complain about the low salaries like any reasonable person would.

    Quote Originally Posted by JulyOne:
    Actuarial analyst / assistant manager. General Insurance. In a large global insurance firm.
    For what it's worth, your potential salary and career would probably be better in Canada. There are insurance firms in Canada where 95% of the actuarial department consists of Chinese employees. I don't see them looking to return to HKG or China :P
    shri likes this.

  7. #37

    I'd say I'm somewhat experienced dealing with headhunters having worked in one for a short period of time and having dealt with them countless times.
    First off I agree with most who say their interests are not aligned with the applicants for obvious reasons. Their client is the hiring company not the applicant, even though in a way, they represent the applicant. They'd bargain for a higher salary if and only if you're the only candidate or if their client absolutely loves you. Normally a reputable company within an industry, either a big international firm or fast growing boutique, would not give you a salary that is lower than your current one. If the hiring company is offering you 27k while you're earning north of 30k, this is probably not a good company. Having said that you currently working in Canada makes it complicated because they have to adjust for cost of living.
    On the flip side, it's the sad truth that both the headhunter and the hiring company will treat you as a local, because you look like a local, speak the local language like a local (despite your fluent English, which by the way, is not that much of an advantage because many HKer speak fluent English), and probably have the same personality/mentality as a local. So my advice/comment is, unless you're desperately looking to move back to HK immediately, don't take the offer. Tell them your expected salary (you should do some research as to how much this level pays) and leave it at that (IMHO, 27k is too low but 40k is a bit high) If this doesn't work out, you can apply for others. By them finding you, it probably means you're not looking actively anyways. While it's harder to apply for jobs overseas, with a unique set of skills and experience, you can apply to jobs yourself and probably find one that suits you.


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